General Rules Question

Crash Enburn
Poll Group

Lanterne Rouge

Posts: 165

General Rules Question Mar 21, 2016 10:59:21 GMT -7

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Post by Crash Enburn on Mar 21, 2016 10:59:21 GMT -7

The rules in each class have this in the 'not allowed' section: "Any part of the car to go beyond the starting peg"

Why?

If your car is 7" long, and part of that 7" is in front of the peg, you've given up that much potential energy. Kinser had mentioned once about how he stopped building a Street Rod (which saddened me) when he realized that some parts would be extending in front of the peg, as it would be against the rules. But, to me at least, this rule doesn't make sense. For every "gain" at the peg, you're taking an equal loss on the hill. So why carry this superstition on?

- Eric

It's not sawdust. It's man glitter.

Admin
Administrator

Posts: 1,950

General Rules Question Mar 21, 2016 16:24:27 GMT -7

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Post by Admin on Mar 21, 2016 16:24:27 GMT -7

Look at it this way. The gate falls forward. If you didn't have this rule someone would build a car that had a hole cut in it and use the gate to shot them forward. Another would be to help new builders build a correct car using proven systems and not gimmicks like Tread Mills and so on.

Mar 21, 2016 10:59:21 GMT -7 Crash Enburn said:

Ca$hRacing
Poll Group

Posts: 23

General Rules Question Mar 21, 2016 17:03:40 GMT -7 via mobile

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Post by Ca$hRacing on Mar 21, 2016 17:03:40 GMT -7

Back in the day there was a builder who integrated a device that once the gate dropped it had an extension that came out, making the car about 3" longer in the front!
Also in a class like Mini Cooper you could extend the wheel base by moving front wheel to very front of the car.(we all we like that).....this is a few of the reasons for the rule.

Crash Enburn
Poll Group

Lanterne Rouge

Posts: 165

General Rules Question Mar 21, 2016 17:20:04 GMT -7

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Post by Crash Enburn on Mar 21, 2016 17:20:04 GMT -7

The gate falls forward. If you didn't have this rule someone would build a car that had a hole cut in it and use the gate to shot them forward.

Wouldn't that require the stager to intentionally place the car like that? I can't imagine you or Kinser going along with that.

Another would be to help new builders build a correct car using proven systems and not gimmicks like Tread Mills and so on.

I say that if the builder builds a car that looks like a tuning fork, and has given his front wheels a 5" "head start", let him run it and see the effect of 5" less potential energy.

But, in both of those cases, wouldn't the car be over length at rest? The Cooper's wheels would render it longer than its requisite 4(?)", and the dyna-tongue would be out at rest.

The rules are the rules, and that's fine. But this one still seems to me to be unnecessary.

Thanks for the replies.

- Eric

It's not sawdust. It's man glitter.

Ca$hRacing Poll Group Posts: 23	General Rules Question Mar 21, 2016 17:35:32 GMT -7 via mobile Admin likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Ca$hRacing on Mar 21, 2016 17:35:32 GMT -7 Remember.....rules are wrote to keep a level playing field for everyone, and most rules come about, because someone found a "gray area" to exploit!

derbychip
Poll Group

Posts: 41

General Rules Question Mar 21, 2016 18:02:47 GMT -7

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Post by derbychip on Mar 21, 2016 18:02:47 GMT -7

I would think if someone made a car that had a inset where the pin would sit, allowing a half inch or.so head start. Then once car fdw moves into rail the solid part of the front where the recessed portion is not becomes Centered to trip the finish line beam.. Essentially making car travel less distance than others

Crash Enburn
Poll Group

Lanterne Rouge

Posts: 165

General Rules Question Mar 21, 2016 19:53:40 GMT -7

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Post by Crash Enburn on Mar 21, 2016 19:53:40 GMT -7

I get that, Cash. But that last section of "not alloweds" looks more like it was copied from the suggested PWD rules in the box than from stopping a pro-level exploit. And, if this was a pro-level exploit that didn't require the assistance of the stager, I'd like to see it.

Derby: That car *would* be traveling a shorter distance. But if the timing lights are all the same distance from the start pegs, then what part of the track will the recessed portion car be shortening?

- Eric

It's not sawdust. It's man glitter.

Admin
Administrator

Posts: 1,950

General Rules Question Mar 22, 2016 6:54:59 GMT -7

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Post by Admin on Mar 22, 2016 6:54:59 GMT -7

On a more important note if this class doesn't get more participation it won't be around to even worry about it. 4-5 cars a month is not enough to keep it in the Man of the Mountain point series tournament and there doesn't seem to be any desire for builders to build them. It will be a class in the this years Man of the Mountain but beyond that is to be determined. This should sadden you much more than a single type of car not being approved. Seems to be a lot more support for a Governor or Mini Cooper class to take the SR spot in the Series. What type of car has the sides that much longer than the middle?

Mar 21, 2016 10:59:21 GMT -7 Crash Enburn said:

Kinser had mentioned once about how he stopped building a Street Rod (which saddened me)

Crash Enburn
Poll Group

Lanterne Rouge

Posts: 165

General Rules Question Mar 22, 2016 8:02:24 GMT -7

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Post by Crash Enburn on Mar 22, 2016 8:02:24 GMT -7

Mar 22, 2016 6:54:59 GMT -7 Admin said:

Mar 21, 2016 10:59:21 GMT -7 Crash Enburn said:

Kinser had mentioned once about how he stopped building a Street Rod (which saddened me)

Point taken. And it was actually part of my point: an SR build was halted because of an odd rule. It was Kinser's build that has kept the wondering about that rule in my mind.

I will be in for two SRs (and a Box Stock) this next go round.

And I can't think of any car that would have the sides actually extend past the pin. I had long imagined that it was a case of bumperettes that would be on either side of the pin, but not behind it.

- Eric

It's not sawdust. It's man glitter.

BRACKETRACER
NPWDRL Sponsor

Posts: 420

General Rules Question Mar 22, 2016 11:53:09 GMT -7

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Post by BRACKETRACER on Mar 22, 2016 11:53:09 GMT -7

Mar 21, 2016 17:20:04 GMT -7 Crash Enburn said:

The gate falls forward. If you didn't have this rule someone would build a car that had a hole cut in it and use the gate to shot them forward.

Wouldn't that require the stager to intentionally place the car like that? I can't imagine you or Kinser going along with that.

Another would be to help new builders build a correct car using proven systems and not gimmicks like Tread Mills and so on.

I say that if the builder builds a car that looks like a tuning fork, and has given his front wheels a 5" "head start", let him run it and see the effect of 5" less potential energy.

That would be an interesting experiment to try. Build a car like a tuning fork but with a lightly spring-loaded door across the nose so that when you place it against the pin it would fall past and stop say 5" farther back. The door closes so the nose will trip the finish timer, giving the car a 5" head start down the hill but giving up 5" of drop. Will the car lose enough potential energy that an identical car could catch it? Any bets?

BRACKETRACER
NPWDRL Sponsor

Posts: 420

General Rules Question Mar 23, 2016 8:22:53 GMT -7 5KidsRacing likes this

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Post by BRACKETRACER on Mar 23, 2016 8:22:53 GMT -7

I took a drilled pine body, slotted the middle, mounted my test wheels, and weighted it up.

I made one run with the car staged on the nose like normal, one run with it staged against the back end of the slot, one run with it staged with the pin as far forward in the slot as it would go without hitting the forward end of the slot, and lastly with the pin just far enough forward that it would strike the slot and give the car a boost.

All I have to say is that I want to race the boosted car against you guys!

The 5" head start cost it nearly .020, moving the pin forward got it within .005 so there's a tipping point up there where a little head start really would overcome the loss of PE if I moved the slot farther forward and moved the pin rest farther forward too. And the boosted run is AWESOME! LOL! So imagine how that would work with a little trapdoor to let the pin slide past and lock so the gate could propel the car down the track if the rules didn't say you couldn't.........

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General Rules Question

Post by Crash Enburn on Mar 21, 2016 10:59:21 GMT -7

Post by Admin on Mar 21, 2016 16:24:27 GMT -7

Post by Ca$hRacing on Mar 21, 2016 17:03:40 GMT -7

Post by Crash Enburn on Mar 21, 2016 17:20:04 GMT -7

Post by Ca$hRacing on Mar 21, 2016 17:35:32 GMT -7

Post by derbychip on Mar 21, 2016 18:02:47 GMT -7

Post by Crash Enburn on Mar 21, 2016 19:53:40 GMT -7

Post by Admin on Mar 22, 2016 6:54:59 GMT -7

Post by Crash Enburn on Mar 22, 2016 8:02:24 GMT -7

Post by BRACKETRACER on Mar 22, 2016 11:53:09 GMT -7

Post by BRACKETRACER on Mar 23, 2016 8:22:53 GMT -7

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