Wheel molds

godfawsharacing Box Stock Posts: 1	Wheel molds Apr 2, 2018 17:25:17 GMT -7 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by godfawsharacing on Apr 2, 2018 17:25:17 GMT -7 I was reading the rules for basx class. What does it mean 2009 wheel molds only. I noticed there are some bsa wheels with out the double step. Are these wheels pre 2009?

SuperFastRacing
1x World, 3x NPWDRL Champion

Getting my cars ready is half the battle.............

Posts: 356

Wheel molds Apr 2, 2018 18:17:16 GMT -7 via mobile

Quote

Post by SuperFastRacing on Apr 2, 2018 18:17:16 GMT -7

Apr 2, 2018 17:25:17 GMT -7 godfawsharacing said:

I was reading the rules for basx class. What does it mean 2009 wheel molds only. I noticed there are some bsa wheels with out the double step. Are these wheels pre 2009?

2009 and after. Pre 2009 or “old style wheels” are not ran in this class anymore. Any vendor should be able to tell you what kind of wheels you are purchasing if you have questions. BSA changed there molds in 2009 and that is why they are called new style wheels.

Last Edit: Apr 2, 2018 18:19:16 GMT -7 by SuperFastRacing

Vitamin K
Poll Group

on ur forum, observin' ur cars

Posts: 372

Wheel molds Apr 3, 2018 13:11:32 GMT -7

Quote

Post by Vitamin K on Apr 3, 2018 13:11:32 GMT -7

Apr 2, 2018 18:17:16 GMT -7 SuperFastRacing said:

Apr 2, 2018 17:25:17 GMT -7 godfawsharacing said:

I was reading the rules for basx class. What does it mean 2009 wheel molds only. I noticed there are some bsa wheels with out the double step. Are these wheels pre 2009?

2009 and after. Pre 2009 or “old style wheels” are not ran in this class anymore. Any vendor should be able to tell you what kind of wheels you are purchasing if you have questions. BSA changed there molds in 2009 and that is why they are called new style wheels.

As further clarification, the issue is that one of the criteria for wheel legality is weight. BASX wheels, for example, can't weigh less than 2.4g. What this does is cap the inertial advantage you can gain via weight removal of the wheel.

As it turns out, the mold for wheels made prior to 2009 has a lot more "meat" on it than the newer wheels. While this does make for a slower wheel out of the box, it also means that the wheel machiner has a lot more freedom in deciding where they remove material from when lightening the wheel. This allows for a more advantageous weight distribution (more of the mass concentrated towards the inside of the wheel, less near the outer edges) once the wheel is turned down to to 2.4g.

The problem, of course, is that wheels made prior to 2009 are a limited resource and harder to find than more recent wheels, making them a more expensive item to obtain. Disallowing pre-2009 wheels helps keeps the cost of building a competitive car down.

Regarding the double step, yes, pre-2009 wheels did not have a double-step. That said, all classes (except box stock) allow for removing the double step (and coning the outer hub), so that much isn't a big deal.

SuperFastRacing
1x World, 3x NPWDRL Champion

Getting my cars ready is half the battle.............

Posts: 356

Wheel molds Apr 3, 2018 15:30:55 GMT -7 'The Fonze' likes this

Quote

Post by SuperFastRacing on Apr 3, 2018 15:30:55 GMT -7

Apr 3, 2018 13:11:32 GMT -7 Vitamin K said:

Apr 2, 2018 18:17:16 GMT -7 SuperFastRacing said:

2009 and after. Pre 2009 or “old style wheels” are not ran in this class anymore. Any vendor should be able to tell you what kind of wheels you are purchasing if you have questions. BSA changed there molds in 2009 and that is why they are called new style wheels.

As further clarification, the issue is that one of the criteria for wheel legality is weight. BASX wheels, for example, can't weigh less than 2.4g. What this does is cap the inertial advantage you can gain via weight removal of the wheel.

As it turns out, the mold for wheels made prior to 2009 has a lot more "meat" on it than the newer wheels. While this does make for a slower wheel out of the box, it also means that the wheel machiner has a lot more freedom in deciding where they remove material from when lightening the wheel. This allows for a more advantageous weight distribution (more of the mass concentrated towards the inside of the wheel, less near the outer edges) once the wheel is turned down to to 2.4g.

The problem, of course, is that wheels made prior to 2009 are a limited resource and harder to find than more recent wheels, making them a more expensive item to obtain. Disallowing pre-2009 wheels helps keeps the cost of building a competitive car down.

Regarding the double step, yes, pre-2009 wheels did not have a double-step. That said, all classes (except box stock) allow for removing the double step (and coning the outer hub), so that much isn't a big deal.

VK is correct in what he is saying about the Old Style wheels and the advantage to machining them and racing them. I would have like to hear more about all the testing VK has done with New Style vs. Old Style and what kind of speed differences he has experienced with his cars.

Vitamin K
Poll Group

on ur forum, observin' ur cars

Posts: 372

Wheel molds Apr 3, 2018 15:33:06 GMT -7 via mobile

Quote

Post by Vitamin K on Apr 3, 2018 15:33:06 GMT -7

Apr 3, 2018 15:30:55 GMT -7 SuperFastRacing said:

Apr 3, 2018 13:11:32 GMT -7 Vitamin K said:

As further clarification, the issue is that one of the criteria for wheel legality is weight. BASX wheels, for example, can't weigh less than 2.4g. What this does is cap the inertial advantage you can gain via weight removal of the wheel.

As it turns out, the mold for wheels made prior to 2009 has a lot more "meat" on it than the newer wheels. While this does make for a slower wheel out of the box, it also means that the wheel machiner has a lot more freedom in deciding where they remove material from when lightening the wheel. This allows for a more advantageous weight distribution (more of the mass concentrated towards the inside of the wheel, less near the outer edges) once the wheel is turned down to to 2.4g.

The problem, of course, is that wheels made prior to 2009 are a limited resource and harder to find than more recent wheels, making them a more expensive item to obtain. Disallowing pre-2009 wheels helps keeps the cost of building a competitive car down.

Regarding the double step, yes, pre-2009 wheels did not have a double-step. That said, all classes (except box stock) allow for removing the double step (and coning the outer hub), so that much isn't a big deal.

VK is correct in what he is saying about the Old Style wheels and the advantage to machining them and racing them. I would have like to hear more about all the testing VK has done with New Style vs. Old Style and what kind of speed differences he has experienced with his cars.

Hah, I am (mostly) just an observer. I'm giving the theory. Some other folks can share from practice.

Eastman Racing BASX Pro 2x NPWDRL Champion Posts: 370	Wheel molds Apr 3, 2018 15:56:04 GMT -7 'The Fonze' likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Eastman Racing on Apr 3, 2018 15:56:04 GMT -7 Vk you correct this time for a change
	you puds aint fast www.pinewoodderbyking.net

Vitamin K Poll Group on ur forum, observin' ur cars Posts: 372	Wheel molds Apr 3, 2018 16:20:53 GMT -7 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Vitamin K on Apr 3, 2018 16:20:53 GMT -7 Apr 3, 2018 15:56:04 GMT -7 Eastman Racing said: Vk you correct this time for a change I'll cherish your approval forever.

pinewoodoutlaws
BASX Am

Posts: 12

Wheel molds Mar 4, 2019 13:20:00 GMT -7 via Tapatalk

Quote

Post by pinewoodoutlaws on Mar 4, 2019 13:20:00 GMT -7

Apr 3, 2018 13:11:32 GMT -7 Vitamin K said:

Apr 2, 2018 18:17:16 GMT -7 SuperFastRacing said:

2009 and after. Pre 2009 or “old style wheels” are not ran in this class anymore. Any vendor should be able to tell you what kind of wheels you are purchasing if you have questions. BSA changed there molds in 2009 and that is why they are called new style wheels.

As further clarification, the issue is that one of the criteria for wheel legality is weight. BASX wheels, for example, can't weigh less than 2.4g. What this does is cap the inertial advantage you can gain via weight removal of the wheel.

As it turns out, the mold for wheels made prior to 2009 has a lot more "meat" on it than the newer wheels. While this does make for a slower wheel out of the box, it also means that the wheel machiner has a lot more freedom in deciding where they remove material from when lightening the wheel. This allows for a more advantageous weight distribution (more of the mass concentrated towards the inside of the wheel, less near the outer edges) once the wheel is turned down to to 2.4g.

The problem, of course, is that wheels made prior to 2009 are a limited resource and harder to find than more recent wheels, making them a more expensive item to obtain. Disallowing pre-2009 wheels helps keeps the cost of building a competitive car down.

Regarding the double step, yes, pre-2009 wheels did not have a double-step. That said, all classes (except box stock) allow for removing the double step (and coning the outer hub), so that much isn't a big deal.

Any way to tell the difference from a new wheel machined for BASX vs a older wheel machined for BASX?

T-Bone Racing Top 25 Posts: 214	Wheel molds Mar 4, 2019 13:29:50 GMT -7 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by T-Bone Racing on Mar 4, 2019 13:29:50 GMT -7 The legal ones have the smaller hub, like a scout wheel (where it touches the car), but the illegal ones have a wider hub (where it touches the body) plus the old style wheel is more expensive

358T Racing 1x World, 1x NPWDRL Champion Posts: 215	Wheel molds Mar 4, 2019 15:39:40 GMT -7 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by 358T Racing on Mar 4, 2019 15:39:40 GMT -7 The lettering on the inside and the outside of the wheel is different also. The mold injection marks are different too. To the trained eye it is easy to spot the difference. Scott
	"Success requires no apologies. Failure permits no alibis"

358T Racing
1x World, 1x NPWDRL Champion

Posts: 215

Wheel molds Mar 4, 2019 15:46:59 GMT -7 BRACKETRACER, jimmy1973, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by 358T Racing on Mar 4, 2019 15:46:59 GMT -7

For the new guys wondering what the differences are between old and new style wheels. Check out this link. Some outdated info in it but still some good info and pictures.

www.maximum-velocity.com/pinewood-derby-times-v9i2/

Last Edit: Mar 4, 2019 15:48:13 GMT -7 by 358T Racing

"Success requires no apologies. Failure permits no alibis"

flockshot Box Stock Posts: 2	Wheel molds Apr 8, 2019 10:49:06 GMT -7 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flockshot on Apr 8, 2019 10:49:06 GMT -7 Just an interesting side note: I checked the bore diameter on 40 wheels yesterday and almost all of the small bore wheels were from mold #4.

Post by godfawsharacing on Apr 2, 2018 17:25:17 GMT -7

Post by SuperFastRacing on Apr 2, 2018 18:17:16 GMT -7

Post by Vitamin K on Apr 3, 2018 13:11:32 GMT -7

Post by SuperFastRacing on Apr 3, 2018 15:30:55 GMT -7

Post by Vitamin K on Apr 3, 2018 15:33:06 GMT -7

Post by Eastman Racing on Apr 3, 2018 15:56:04 GMT -7

Post by Vitamin K on Apr 3, 2018 16:20:53 GMT -7

Post by pinewoodoutlaws on Mar 4, 2019 13:20:00 GMT -7

Post by T-Bone Racing on Mar 4, 2019 13:29:50 GMT -7

Post by 358T Racing on Mar 4, 2019 15:39:40 GMT -7

Post by 358T Racing on Mar 4, 2019 15:46:59 GMT -7

Post by flockshot on Apr 8, 2019 10:49:06 GMT -7

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